INTERVIEW: GOODHOOD "OVER THE COUNTER CULTURE"
If there is one international retailer who has meticulously dedicated themselves to blending the streams of Fashion & Design with a culture more befitting an upstart skate store, it’s London’s GoodHood. We sat down with the stores founders Joanna Sindle & Kyle Stewart to chat about Golf GTI’s, being Post Corporate Entrepreneurs and clearing dance floors /
GG: Okay let's start from the beginning, where did you guys originally meet?
Joanna Sindle (JS): We met at work, which was Levi’s. We worked in the design team on Wardour Street around 16, 17 years ago. I was on the denim design side and Kyle was more graphics and branding, stuff like that.
GG: So how long were you there?
JS: Oh God. I think I was there three years, maybe four, something like that. My memories of that time are slowly disappearing. I think we were like early-to mid-twenties. That whole job was about the social side, out in London after work every night. I do remember the first day Kyle started though; he was a very quiet person then.
GG: I see, and Kyle had you just moved to London from Edinburgh at that point?
Kyle Stewart (KS): No, I had been in London for a couple of years. I studied in Scotland then moved to London. I worked a few different jobs and then I met a great guy called Mark Westmoreland who was a design manager at various companies and he took me under his wing. He got a job at Levi's and took me with him. It was like a real blessing.
GG: So was he like a mentor figure?
KS: Yes, absolutely. Mark has got a bit of a reputation for bringing people up through the industry from the bottom. And I was lucky enough to be brought in there and obviously that was like a baptism of fire you know. There was the insight that you get from being at a corporate company, but also the great history, the design etc. So in a way it was better than going to university. I was there for two years and it was great fun as Jo mentioned. It was just a good time to be in London. Around 2003 / 2004, sort of pre-Internet. There were a few blogs and forums back then, but nothing like there is now.
GG: I look at that time quite fondly because the Internet hadn’t become all-consuming at that point, it allowed a certain head space. So was that when you guys decided to leave and start GoodHood? Or did you do something else after that?
JS: I had quite a few jobs after I left Levi’s, but I was very unsatisfied all the time. I properly job-hopped around because I didn’t really enjoy working for other people. I always thought I knew how to do it better, and I was always frustrated by the constraints on creativity. I wasn’t really into creating product that I didn't like. So I was always really opinionated and moved around a lot, and I think that ultimately drove me to leave.
GG: I think everyone I know who is off that mind set, generally ends up in one form or another working for themselves?
JS: Yeah totally. I think that the places we had worked at gave us an amazing opportunity in that we got to travel a lot. We travelled as a design team and did the most amazing research trips. And because it was pre Internet, you got a real insight into other stuff that was going on around the world.
I lived in Brooklyn around 1999 / 2000 and it was quite inspiring to see how people started things up there. Where they have little shop and then there was a studio in there and there was a community etc. I wanted to bring together all the stuff we had seen in Japan or in the states to one place in London and build a similar place with the store.
“When we started it was very idealistic. We would always say stuff like; we only deal with independent brands or companies that we can shake the hand of the man that runs the company”
Kyle Stewart
GG: Ok, so at this point Kyle were you going on these trips as well?
KS: Yeah Yeah.
GG: And is the store now as you see it, what you had envisioned when you started it or has it been evolving?
KS: Totally changed. When we started it was very idealistic. We would always say stuff like; we only deal with independent brands or companies that we can shake the hand of the man that runs the company. And while it’s a really nice thing, that has changed of course over the years.
But the ideal still does stand true because there's honesty to that. And when you start to deal with the wider industry and when these ideals aren't upheld, you start to run into problems when it comes to trusting the person or brands you're working with.
GG: Yeah that totally makes sense. I think there's needs to be, at least at the start of the relationships some kind of face value where you feel like you can look in someone's eyes and go, Yeah okay, I believe in you etc.
KS: Yeah it’s integral to us as being post corporate entrepreneurs. And that in its self was quite an important step for us… to try to define what being post corporate was at that moment in time. And as it's grown we still have those ideals, but they've adapted and changed. But the essence is still there.
GG: It is quite easy to feel anti corporate in many ways. But are there any values that you learned from your time working at corporate brands that you've brought into the way you work now?
JS: Yeah some. I think I learned more about what I didn't want our company to be. And the drive to start our own thing was about creating a decent place to work. Where you enjoyed going to work and that treated people well.
KS: For me the exceptionally talented people that you were surrounding by was great. You do get that in those environments because the big corporates can pay the salaries and attract talent. So yeah, that was a learning experience of course. I loved being surrounded by people that were brilliant at what they did.
GG: Are there any brands that you currently carry that have been with you since day one?
JS: WoodWood was one of the first. Norse… I remember Mikael walking in the store with a bag of caps.
KS: We carried brands like Bernard Wilhelm & Black Dollars who we don't carry anymore, but then there are brands like PAM who we do. And part of where we are at now is the feeling that these brands have been part of our journey from the start. And it’s pretty cool to be able to say we still carry them.
GG: That in itself is quite a rarity these days. I sometimes feel stores can be like record labels. Where if an A&R changes then sometimes the Artists change. It can be the same with Buyers coming into a store and wanting to put their stamp on it.
KS: yeah right. I mean that will never happen with us. And some of the brands have had their ups and downs. But we are still trying to keep the relationship going with them because there's something nice about not just dropping people you've been with for ages.
“I don't actually look at what anybody else is doing out there, these days I hardly go online and look at anything. I'm not on Instagram. I still try and operate in an instinctive way and go find stuff I love”
Jo Sindle
GG: I wanted to ask you about the move from the original store to the new space. What was it like going to that bigger shop floor?
JS: So brilliant. It was such a good time in our history. It transformed the business in many ways because we couldn't grow anymore where we were, both financially and in terms of the brands that we wanted to stock.
GG: The Goldfish bowl effect basically.
JS: Yeah. We just felt really restricted by the space that we had. And I especially had always had this dream of a big emporium full of loads of quality stuff. And moving was the real step towards that and it was exciting. It just transformed things and gave us more exposure. We then started operating on a whole different level and it gave us a platform to be able to do a lot of things we'd always wanted to do. Now we're at the point again where we feel the same as we did when we were in the old store.
KS: I think the other thing was that it was a big risk. We couldn't afford to do it and it was quite make or break really.
GG: Does it make you collectively kind of thrive on that energy of risk and excitement?
JS: I mean I'm not risk averse, it's just like the actual cash flow side of things. But at the same time, taking that risk to grow is not an issue for me personally. I am always thinking about ideas of how to grow. What's the next thing? Where's it going? Building it is part of my love.
GG: What do you think there've been the major kind of shifts in retail since you guys started?
JS: Generally because of how easy it is to share information, taste levels have just gone up a notch. And so I think that the demand for interesting products has grown a lot in the time since we opened.
GG: Do you feel there is less of a “crate digging” mentality toward clothing than there used to be?
JS: Totally yes. I'm nostalgic about those days. And I feel quite pleased that I've experienced pre Internet and post Internet. I think we are probably the last generation to experience that.
KS: Well you've now got that one global audience. And what happens is everybody's fucking store ends up looking the same. And that homogenization of culture has been fairly negative I'd say.
And in terms of what I think is a recent shift, up to four, maybe five years ago now, the department stores were doing nothing on a grass roots culture level. Their consumers were football players and money people with a different taste level. But now with instagram and the introduction of Off-White and the brands that sit in that adjacency it’s all changed. And I raise that simply because we as an independent retailer were kind of looked down on for having what was considered Streetwear brands. It was a dirty word back then. And people really struggled with the definition of what “street wear” was. But in fact it was just that we were massive geeks about clothing. And it had to be the best of everything, the best sneakers, and the best technical outerwear. Everything was just the best. You didn't have that in the luxury environment. You can't say any of the luxury designers give you the best of anything apart from the idea of what Luxury is.
GG: Yeah I totally get that. And what you're saying in terms of the way the department stores are changing how they operate and are bringing in less luxury based “In season” projects such as T-Shirt pop ups with Music or Skate related projects etc.
KS: The challenge is keeping integrity. When there is a lot of “they've done that, so let's do that” everywhere. And I know with technical innovations online it’s hard to not follow others.
But when it comes to defining what a brand is, you've got to think forward. And that can be hard in a world ruled by metrics. We always try to push our passion through in everything we do, but it doesn't always perform as well as more obvious stuff. But while we are the bosses we will always put what we feel is right ahead of metrics.
GG: For me you guys are very much about doing something first. And that is hard when you are under the microscope of other retailers all the time.
KS: Yeah. And that's a frustration in a sense because we are not massive. And being under the microscope of massive brands, it creates issues because they can instantly take your successes and instantly replicate them. Like probably any of the niche brands that we import and its fucking Rad and we get a great response you know. Then X retailer is on their door saying, can we have it? And so trying to protect our USP is really hard.
JS: Personally the way I deal with it is to be quite blinkered. I don't actually look at what anybody else is doing out there, I mean these days I hardly go online and look at anything. I'm not on Instagram. I still try and operate in an instinctive way and go find stuff I love.
KS: But you know one thing that is really nice is there is camaraderie between a certain number of the independent stores in Europe and the UK and we all help each other. It’s a really heartening thing that we all work together and try to help each other out. We’re not out to steal each other’s customer.
GG: So back in the days what stores were you really excited about going to see?
KS: Duffer… Yeah. And then before that Dr. Jives in Glasgow, which was an awesome store. But coming down to London Duffer for me was absolutely the best shop because it was democratic. So me being just a graduate, I could go in there and get a rocker sweat for 60 quid, and it wasn't £375, or something crazy. It was a dead exciting place I found. They did have expensive stuff yeah, but there was a balance and mix.
GG: A bit like you guys?
KS: Yeah you know, we try and think that way, but Duffer for me really influenced the style of London at the time.
GG: That’s interesting for me, because I always feel like you guys have a similar approach to the store and the brands you bring to it. And you want to protect them and nurture them as much as you want to promote them?
JS: Yeah I think it's a really interesting challenge to be faced with as well. As in how you maintain that ideal and grow as a business.
GG: If you were to open a new store tomorrow, what would be the first track on the playlist?
JS: ooh that's a really hard one to answer.
KS: Like my honest answer would be “Reckless Life” by Guns and Roses. I played a Soulland gig recently and that was the first track I put on. It cleared the dance floor and it was just a fucking beautiful moment. Somebody came up to me after and was shaking my hand and saying “that's the best track anybody's ever played at a Soulland party… ever” and it just went down hill from there.
GG: Do you guys put a lot of input into the store playlists and things like that?
JS: Do you know what, unfortunately not anymore because it's such a time consuming thing and it's really difficult to manage what the staff want to play in the store.
GG: Yeah its difficult as everyone has an opinion on that. But I feel we're on the verge of a musical shift as well as a fashion shift.
KS: Cool. What are you saying?
GG: Well, everything can hit saturation point. And I just think that the cycles that are usually around 10 years or so, and things seem to change up again.
KS: it's like the monoculture. Yeah. It's just too much. It's like KRS said, you know, the bridge is over. There's been a bridge for everybody that's got face tattoo’s and pink hair. Do you know what I mean?
GG: Okay so let's talk about the latest Vans colab. How have you approached it in order to make it feel fresh for you guys?
KS: What we did is basically not be fussed about needing to make it feel fresh. And instead we just wanted to make some really wicked Vans.
JS: Yeah, I think we wanted to not totally leave where were with the first colab. And we talked a lot about chaos and reflection in a time of like how chaotic things are. So we kind of brainstormed around colours and in the end came back to black and white because it felt like us.
GG: So the play on words is still very much there and using text etc.?
KS: Yeah. This one is called “Love in the time of Chaos”. And perhaps this is a bit too deep for the actual product, but it is black and white i.e. colour-blind. So yeah, there is a comment on the idea of love in a time of chaos is because what we see is the looming culture wars and people picking sides because of the information they consume. Where we believe in a colour-blind cosmopolitan global future. And the idea is to have poster campaigns throughout London, showing people just loving each other with no product at all.
GG: Final thing, I remember when you guys opened the new store? The video wall you had featured a Mk1 VW Golf GTI, and Kyle we have talked about VW’s before. But whats the attraction with them as cars?
JS: I think I've got a total passion for them because my mom had the first convertible Golf, which was a Mk 2 but it was on a Mk 1 frame. My dad was really into cars. And I grew up in Manchester where every lad was a boy racer. Yeah they were big into cars.
GG: I think back then you were either in the VW camp or you were into Fords or Vauxhalls etc. It was quite tribal, almost like music and fashion to an extent.
JS: I was always into VW’s and I don't know why. VW’s seemed I guess a bit less boy racy, and a bit more stylish….
GG: Couldn't agree more….