INTERVIEW: ANDREW JACKSON
Nobody knows Los Angeles like Andrew Jackson… like an eagle souring above the urban sprawl, he has seen the city for a lifetime via two wheels. And that time spent in the saddle gives you a different perspective, one that is built on collective passions and appreciation of your community & surroundings. A perspective that brakes down barriers and re-writes the rules. We caught up with the Canyon rider to hear about his journey from Motor Cross to Pro BMX through to the world of Gravel, and how he plans to change the game and the culture of cycling /
GG: Firstly thanks for coming on to do the chat, man. I've been a fan of your feed for a little while now. And I guess these are the good things about Instagram you know, the stuff that interests us can be brought to us via a small window on our phone, which when you put it against all the darker underbelly of Facebook and Instagram, it highlights the lighter side of it I suppose. The bits that we can really take away and enjoy. And you know when I first saw your feed it really made me think that like, wow, this guy is coming at it at a different angle. That post you did when you started riding for Canyon, and you were all like “stay Humble & work hard etc” and then just got in that mad tricked out supercar and floored. I was like, I love that. It was pretty irreverent and immediately made me think of old skate videos etc.
AJ: Haha yeah… Being honest I used to be like the most anti Instagram guy, like no self promotion. What it stood for etc. And I was like if you're not shooting a photo for a magazine or you know, have a brand pushing you, I just thought it was so corny. My BMX sponsors at the end of my career used to be like hey you need to like use Instagram. But I was always like, nah man. So now I've come full circle, to doing stuff that feels like I kind of was making fun of, almost.
GG: Yeah, exactly. And that’s what’s good about it.
AJ: Now I see that there's a way to use it. Like you said, it's cool that you liked the stuff I was doing and you can kind of see where I am coming from because I feel like there is a way to use it right. To be authentic, to tell your story, you know.
GG: Yeah it's that constant balance between the business-driven elements and yeah, feeling authentic. I can imagine sponsors now across the board — not just in extreme sports or other culture-based sports but through mainstream sports like football as well — that kinda goes like you need a team managing that side of things for you. And that’s hard to do in a way that feels real.
GG: So can you tell me a bit more about your background, you came into riding via BMX right?
AJ: Um, I actually came up racing motor cross. Like that's all we did. I quit school when I was 14 and traveled and did all nationals and stuff like that. I got signed to Kawasaki and then built like a whole factory team around me with four other dudes that were on the team. So yeah, it was pretty cool but it was like small so there was a lot of pressure to deal with and stuff you know. That’s kind of a real sport… You got to churn through all that stuff, which is cool but yeah, it’s tough.
GG: Yeah, a serious level of commitment and discipline I imagine. On a par with say football or something like that.
AJ: Yeah.... I mean in terms of how they sign the kids on when they're 12 years old to like a developmental program to be pro. Like you don't get to hang out with your friends and stuff. It's really hard. Anyway after racing I switched over to BMX, which was the complete opposite. I also got hurt pretty bad in my last year of motor-cross racing. Then I had to be put into a medically induced coma for seven days. I was basically bleeding out. Suffice to say, it was real bad. At the time I didn't feel like it, but yeah I guess I almost died. That's actually what they were telling my parents, like he may not make it.
GG: Wow… how old were you then?
AJ: I was like 17 or 16, because I did one more year of racing I think. And after that, my parents were like ok. But everyone else was like gung ho and like yeah, this is what we are doing. We're turning pro and stuff… that kind of thing. But after that, it was a whole wake-up call. Like is this worth it?
It took me like a whole year to get better. And then I did one more year in amateur, which was my last year. Cause usually you turn pro at 18. So I did one more year in amateur, and I got like fifth at nationals and stuff. I did really well, but me and my whole family were all like, this isn't the life we want to live. And I didn't get like a huge contract. I think I would have been on like a B team or something you know? So I quit.
GG: Yeah I guess that level of sacrifice needs a certain level of reward. Especially for the parents as well as for the talent.
AJ: Yeah. My dad actually worked full-time, and did it all before I got signed. Then it got a lot easier because they get to take the bikes and everything and it is just a case of flying or driving in. But yeah, he would work full time and then get off work and work on the bikes on Friday nights and then Saturday mornings at a four AM we'd be driving like across the country to some race.
GG: Was it his passion as well, motorbikes and stuff.
AJ: Oh yeah 100 percent.
GG: That’s so dope when you can share those passions with a parent. So what took you into BMX when you finished racing?
AJ: Yeah well, I've been on bikes since I can even remember. Like building jumps and all that kinda stuff. Me and my brother, both of us came up from when we were like four years old every single day. That's all we did even on the motor cross. Like it was always the thing I did on the side. Hitting the big dirt thumps on my bike. And I was always like, “done get hurt” you know, you're going to miss the next race.
So after that, uh, I needed to figure out what I was going to do and my mum made up a fake diploma because like I told you, I quit high school at 14. She made up some fake diploma so I could get into community, that's what they call them here "community colleges". Like it’s not a real school. And I just got super into the BMX stuff. Like that's all I did. I would go to school, then ride my bike. It was like, this is what I want to do. And yeah, it just kind of like blew up from there. It's really similar to my two trajectories from BMX in the road, like it was no plan.
GG: So each turn in your career has been like a serendipitous thing..
AJ: Yeah exactly…
GG: I was watching some of your older BMX video parts on your feed. Which are super sick, I mean BMX still blows me away to be honest with you. When I used to skate I used to watch the dudes on BMX and be amazed because it's just so gnarly if you slam.
AJ: Yeah well like I told you I've been riding forever, but I rode pro BMX I think for about 10 years. A pretty long time from when I was like 21 to maybe 30. So yeah, it was cool. Like it was so different from anything I had done, just getting to travel the whole world was crazy, when like the internet wasn't as big and companies were still touring.
GG: Oh, so is that a direct consequence then? Because of the internet companies are doing less tours and stuff. I mean obviously pre COVID.
AJ: Yeah. I think it's over unless you're on like Nike or Vans. And I don't even know if they are still doing it because, you know, why send your team around the world when you can just sponsor the best dude in that country on Instagram?
GG: That’s kinda lazy man.
AJ: Yeah it drives me crazy.
GG: For me as a kid, seeing those pro riders at tours demos etc was such a big deal.
AJ: Yeah I am really glad I got to experience all that until the tail end of my time in BMX, you know going to see Germany and seeing some kid riding my signature frame was one of the biggest trips for me. It was so humbling. And also just the traveling you did, places with other languages and cultures. It was eye opening. You needed to learn how to carry yourself and be respectful to other people and cultures.
GG: And yeah being lucky enough to inspire those younger riders as well man. Must be such a great feeling.
On the subject of travel… I read in a previous interview that as well as the grid side to travel, there was some issues you ran into. What’s that about?
AJ: Ahhh you talking about Croatia?
GG: Yeah that sounded pretty crazy.
AJ: Yeah. That's nuts. I was like talking to a girl over there for a while, and they had an X Games thing going on there so I was like ok this could be cool. But there were these dudes that were like drinking and stuff and hanging out by our tent. I guess you would call them a gang or something, they were some kind of Neo Nazi dudes. There is a whole story but basically yeah, as a black guy in that part of Croatia it was a scary moment.
GG: Ok so let’s talk about your trajectory from those last days of BMX and how that came to an end. You know because BMX for me seems so punishing as a sport, because outside of the fall you have the double threat of a very heavy object falling on you as well. And that must take its toll over time. Do you hit a point where you were like ok I am done?
AJ: I think what led to my out was honestly the Internet stuff man, which is funny. Cause it's like what I… well I don't want to say "do now" as I don't want to, say, put myself in that category. But when it kinda started changing from magazines and touring and video parts, to then becoming like Instagram is how you promote yourself. I even say promote yourself. Cause it used to be like, you know, you align yourself with the company, then it's their job to send you your film or video parts or whatever.
GG: So then it all became a bit like the music industry?
AJ: Yeah very similar… I always do that comparison. And I feel like the money also wasn’t as good as it was back then either. Now everyone can be like a pro, like I don’t even know what that really means anymore.
GG: Well, yeah. I mean, for me it was always having your name on something that was the Mark, wasn't it? You have a board with your name on it or your signature model or whatever. That was the antithesis of being a pro and everything that came with that. And I don't really know the ins and outs of how it worked, but I'm assuming if you have your boards, you've got royalties on your board and such.
AJ: Yeah I had a line of parts, frame and stuff. But yeah the internet stuff just kinda killed it for me and I slowly stopped riding. Then I was getting more into filming and working with my homie Glen Milligan who filmed a bunch of the most influential BMX videos ever. And then we started our own online zine kind of thing as we were getting into a lot of the blogs and stuff. You know some of us pros in the LA scene wanted to do something cool, the way we wanted to do it. And it blew up pretty big back then… So then I was just like working with my friends and filming them more than I was doing it myself. And then I hurt my knee. I tore like everything in my whole knee, like ACO, MCO, my PCL like broken off and my femur, it was like, meniscus this? I did everything. It was so crazy.
GG: Awwwww fuck, man that must have been… yeah pretty bad.
AJ: Yeah it was all bad. So I went to the doctor and they were like year you’re totally screwed. And I am like am I going to be able to ride BMX again? Because I knew I was in my last year of contract and stuff. And he was like I am trying to get you walking without a limp so I wouldn’t worry about that. And I got all mad because I am a stubborn guy like that. So stormed out and said I would fix it myself. I then hooked up with my brother who was riding pro mountain bike and he put me in touch with his physio and I did 6 months. You know my knee didn’t have an ACR and was all like loose. But I got the muscles strong enough that I could hold the knee. And I rode out the end of my contract which wasn’t renewed, mainly for the reasons I spoke about before, the Instagram stuff.
GG: Was that like a pretty emotional sign off from Pro BMX then? Or were you mentally prepared for it?
AJ: I was kinda prepared for it. But yeah it was the end of being a pro athlete which I had been doing since I was 14 years old. So yeah it wasn’t easy.
GG: So how did you get from there to riding pro for Canyon?
AJ: So this is how all this started, I was like I can’t ride BMX so I was just trying to figure out what I was going to do with my life and that’s when I decided I was going to go full into the video stuff I was doing and put my all into it. You know stuff I cared about in LA, the culture and community. `When I rode BMX I was always really big on just like knowing the city and knowing LA like, yeah, I would just choose a direction and just vibe, I feel like I know the city, like I know it, I challenge anyone to know like downtown LA better than I do. Like every street, everything… And I would just shoot photos back then because I could never do graph or anything like that.
GG: And this was what lead you to riding again?
AJ: Well yeah, I was at a point where I was kinda down. My brother was still riding for Giant at the time, like he always trained on a road bike. So he was like come get on a bike and ride, I will get you a loaner and stuff. And at the time I just thought it was lame dudes in spandex and stuff. I don’t know why haha. And I had gained like 40 pounds or something crazy so I was like ok, let’s do it. So he got me started. He got me a bike and I would just ride it. Full basket ball shorts and normal Nikes on top of the clip peddles and stuff because I didn’t want the bike shoes. So yeah there is this loop around here that are these climbs and our central park is like Griffith. And when I found these loops and I was going up these hills… this was the whole catalyst. I was struggling up this hill and this peloton of like 8 dudes in like cool Rapha stuff came by me, looked at me and be like shaking their head. Then just they peddled away from me and I was like ooooohhhhhhh… And then it all kicks in like… I have been a pro rider for 10 years, traveled the world etc… who are you? This isn’t happening.
GG: Yeah I feel that… I had similar reservations about road riding and the snobbery. But it turns out a lot of guys I ride with have come from BMX or skating etc. And there still seems to be that level of camaraderie that I used to get from skating and stuff. But yeah you want to be able to keep up right? And then it becomes quite addictive.
AJ: Yeah… so then I started to go hard on learning everything I needed to know if order to get better. And I did. I already had bike handling down but there was still a lot to learn. And eventually I shot a video with the guys at Giro and they were into what I had been doing content wise. Similar to what you had said to me originally about changing the way the sport looks and stuff. And they were putting together a gravel program with me and a couple of other people. I don’t know exactly how they are gonna market it, but we are going to these Grand Enduro races and stuff. And yeah they hooked up Canyon and Sram etc, yeah they did a lot of it.
But it was cool because to me this whole push for diversity and inclusivity in biking seemed so insincere honestly, and I was kinda turned off by the whole thing. And it still feels like a lot of great tour riders are overlooked, riders like Nicholas Dlamini or Kevin Reza who both rode the Tour de France. And they get overlooked as they are not as marketable or whatever. I feel like it's a thing, like you said it's the culture in the sport. But I don't know, like a black family from LA isn’t looking at the Tour de France, we're not checking for that, which is an issue in itself. And those are the type of issues I feel could be changed. So I made sure with the team deal, I was like, I don't want you guys to put together a marketing program and then basically this team has a black face kind of thing. I was like, if we're going to do it. I want to be involved with Canyon and talk to them about how we're going to market what I'm going to be doing. You know what I mean? Like, I can go and film something and not get yelled at for it because I am not supposed to do it or whatever you know.
GG: And your attitude, the way you ride and what you do on your social media you know… going back to the fact that you really didn't like social media, I think it's actually really working for you. Because you're putting across such a different vibe with the way you approach riding. Cruising around the city and stuff, you know, just bumping into people with mashed up rides or whatever. And it just feels comfortable and familiar from like a skate in or community perspective, you know? You just wouldn't see that from a lot of today’s pro riders, you know?
AJ: Yeah, it's a conscious thing, it’s the way we set up my deal. With a separate media budget and stuff. And I don't want to be put in some advert peddling up a mountain with a frown on my face. Like if we're gonna do it, let's do something cool in LA. And hopefully I'll be able to start showing more of that now.
Andrew helping a local homeless person move their stuff.
GG: Yeah it seems a lot of the brands are really trying to focus on the community side of cycling now, and how that's helping with mental health. I know Rapha are doing a lot of work in that area. And it's weird because there is stuff that guys find hard to admit to their closest friends, but you'd perhaps admit stuff to a guy on a ride that you don’t know so well. People just seem to open up more on those situations, and you can talk through issues and maybe you don't find the answer, but it's just getting things off your chest that sometimes is the key.
AJ: Yeah that's the sort of thing I told you, I was really low not being able to do what I wanted to do anymore with BMX. And like at a weird point in my life I started doing this. And you can apply those life lessons you learn. It’s like riding up a big climb you know. It's a grind so start it slow and don't go too hard at the beginning, stay consistent and it'll all work out in the end…