FECAL MATTER
Hannah Ros Dalton and Steven Raj Bhaskaran take the name Fecal Matter. They embrace the unique and extreme. Fetal Matter have a unique approach to their output which goes much deeper than their appearance. What they represent and embody is the fight against censorship. I spent an afternoon with Fecal Matter in Tokyo. First off capturing the pair wearing their good friend Rick Owens, then sitting down having a conversation while taking in the sunset. We spoke about everything to do with Fecal Matter and what they are all about.
First of all, can you please introduce yourselves.
Hannah: We're Fecal Matter, and we are here today in Tokyo.
Steven: We're designers, artists, musicians. We kind of do everything. We're just focused on expressing ourselves in whatever medium allows us to do it.
When and where did you guys meet?
H: At fashion school in Montreal, Canada. We were studying design, but mostly the technical side, pattern making, sewing, drawing. It was less creative and really technical. We didn't really like each other at first because Steven was always late and unorganised. I was the opposite - punctual and studious.
S: We also looked totally different than today. Hannah looked very preppy. I was into Japanese fashion. I was into Yohji and Comme, the skirts with the blazer and dress shoes. As soon as we started to talk, we realised that we really had everything in common. We were the missing pieces in each other's lives because Hannah gave me the confidence to take the next step in my transformation. I also gave her the confidence to be herself and pursue who she wanted to be, because she grew up in such a restrictive environment.
H: I went to a private school. It was a bubble that is hard to get out of. I feel like we helped each other escape.
S: I was living in a kind of poor area in Montreal, and I went to public school. My upbringing was so different to Hannah’s. Also, I'm a person of color. There're so many different things that we were going through, were people like us are usually in opposition. We found a way to just help each other and see the world through each other’s eyes. We realised we're kind of the same. We really complement each other. Maybe my lack of organisation is an issue, but...
H: But for creation, you need chaos. At the same time, you need a little bit of order. We balance each other.
How did it transform into what is Fecal Matter today?
S: It was a journey. I think back then we did not see it ending up where it is right now. But I think even back then, we still knew that we had to give 100% no matter what. We immediately knew that we wanted to work together because we were obsessed with one another. We were best friends, and it was just like a natural to want to spend time together. When, when we fell in love, it solidified our belief that we could really pursue everything we've ever wanted to, if we did it together.
H: It was a gradual journey through school, we did our exit exam together. When we left school, and had to produce a collection, we decided to do it together. We really developed these skills of designing as one and not designing as two separate entities, bringing the feminine but also harshness. Seeing how that creates something unique that isn't in the market. The dedication of not just putting it on paper but applying it to our everyday lives is a big part of it. So, it's been 10 years of this creative journey together.
S: When we started creating in Montreal, we were hoping to be working as designers, kind of in the background. But really nobody really paid attention because they were too scared. What we thought was beautiful, people were saying was ugly, and weird. I guess we just clicked that we should do stuff on social media because there's access to a wider audience. So, we started posting. People got to discover our message and find out that our work was through our bodies and through our expression.
In the beginning, I think we were fighting the concept of putting ourselves out there because we wanted to be taken seriously as designers. But we're totally comfortable with how things are now because we get the best of both worlds. We create whatever we want, but we also show the authenticity in everything that we do. A big part of how the photography and music came about was that when we tried working with other people, but they didn't really get our message. So, we decided to just do it ourselves. The makeup and all of that, we started doing just for us.
It started with fashion, and then it's grown much bigger and wider, encompassing so many elements.
S: Totally. I think it's it was in our nature, at least for me. I was bullied a lot when I was young. So, I feel like I was always searching to be included, to be understood. I think that fashion kind of gives you that. Fashion is a very validating industry. When you're a part of it, you feel beautiful, you feel rich, you feel privileged, you feel glamorous, amazing. I feel like, naturally, both of us, we were searching to be accepted in that way.
The more we engaged with the fashion world, we realised that actual beauty lies beyond it. It exists outside of fashion too, and that's kind of how we got attracted to so many different other industries and different aspects of creating. If we were only in fashion, we wouldn't have survived.
H: It's so much more fulfilling to have your fingers in different pies.
S: Fashion has limits. We all have a preconceived notion of what that looks like, and you have to distort yourself in some ways. We've learned to accept the fact that we're just different. In the beginning, maybe we wanted to be more like everyone else.
There was a moment, a time before when even we met, when we were 14-year-olds, obsessed with fashion. We would try to look amazing even on the bus, and we’d be really self-conscious of how we looked. That is what the fashion industry does to people! It makes you want to conform to the images on billboards.
H: People were always complaining about the fashion industry, whether it's the environmental stuff or how things are made or the lack of beauty standards. I feel like with Fecal Matter, instead of just complaining, we are doing something about it. I think that's a big part of our work. Let's do something about the stuff we hate, let's leave our stamp on it.
S: Our main focus is definitely fighting censorship. It can kill creatives, kill beauty, kill art. As we've learned by what we've gone through with social media. We've travelled to different countries, exploring. We've realised that one of the biggest challenges that people face is censorship in all its forms. It could be discrimination if you're queer or whatever. It limits people from reaching their full potential.
A big part of what we do is to try to include some critical thinking in our work, even if it's a bit risky. Like yesterday we almost got sued for using a photo of a little girl who was in one of the photo shoots that we did. The mom said she would sue us. We took it down, and we’re totally comfortable doing that. It’s because of how we look on Instagram, it’s an intimidating look. The mom was like, wait, this is dangerous. In reality, from the girl’s perspective, at that photoshoot, she just saw somebody that looked beautiful and interesting and special and unique and different and colourful.
It's interesting how the mind and the media censor people in so many ways. There was a moment yesterday after when we saw the legal threats, we thought maybe we should stop doing these types of photos. But the last thing that we would want to do is to take someone's image and profit directly from that. I guess we're navigating how we create with total freedom.
S: You know, today with the iPhone, everybody is filming everything. Everybody has access to everyone. Speaking personally, people film us all the time to make fun of us. The number of videos we've seen of people filming us uploaded to some random TikTok. The caption is like, ‘look at these freaks’. It's a part of the world we live in. It's a lot to navigate.
When people think of us, they usually think of these photos of us being ourselves in public. The idea of seeing someone like us living a regular life on the street, it's something that people rarely see. To be honest, social media and specifically Instagram and all of that, the comment section is actually a microphone for a lot of people that feel voiceless. They treat it as like an opportunity to speak out, and to stand up for what they believe in. Unfortunately, some also use it to get out frustrations and just yell at whatever is in front of them.
H: We're strong people, so it doesn't really affect us, but I feel bad for younger kids or more sensitive people.
S: It applies to, disabled people, the overweight. It applies to so many. It causes high school drama.
H: It is a part of the journey of Fecal Matter but also a part of so many other people that dress up and express themselves in public. Not just to get paid, people who really express themselves authentically. It's sad.
S: It's a mission of ours to use our platform to help people with their daily lives as far as we can. We want to help people understand that if we could do it, they can. To see the strength that we have to persevere in no matter what. Hopefully, that rubs off on them a little bit so they can apply that courage and confidence to themselves. Whether it's designing or music or whatever, we're focused on the impact of what we do more than exactly what we're doing.
Why did you choose the name Fecal Matter?
H: Fecal Matter? We just felt like this industry was shit. But how can we make it sound a bit nicer? The scientific word for shit is Fecal Matter, and then to take it a step further, Matière Fécale is how you say it in French. So that's kind of like the story, I guess.
S: We presented our little student collection as part a Fashion Week festival thing in Montreal. They asked us what we call ourselves? That's when we went jumped outside and came up with Fecal Matter. Fast forward to the presentation, and they announced our turn with my name, Steven Bhaskaran. We wondered why they didn't use Fecal Matter. The organiser was like, I can't use that, it's an insult. In that moment we noticed that maybe the name could create buzz. At the same time, we didn’t want to bow to censorship. It is about all of the values that we're trying to present. If somebody really does love us and back us up, they're going to use Fecal Matter, and this was in the beginning. Now it's like people...I mean people ask, "Why do you call yourself Fecal Matter?" They would always use it, and it's totally chill, but in the beginning, 10 years ago, it was definitely like unheard of for a young designer brand to want to call themselves Fecal Matter. Whereas now, I feel like there's a lot of cooler brand names. You know what I mean? It's not just let's put our last name on it. People are coming up with interesting names. So I think it's cool.
You moved to Paris about a year ago. Can you talk about like what was the catalyst for moving to Paris, how's the transition been, and how's it affected Fecal Matter?
H: I think during COVID it was a big wake up call because we weren't able to travel. So usually we were in Montreal, Canada, and traveling out constantly for gigs or for projects or for fashion stuff. But then COVID happened, we couldn't travel, so we felt really isolated and a bit stuck and kind of a bit stagnant. We worked with Rick on a project with Converse, which was really fun because we creative directed it. We were the models. We shot it and it was kind of like we did the whole 360.
S: Which maybe if it was not during COVID, maybe we wouldn't have that opportunity because it was an isolated project. We were able to do it in our own terms because we couldn't work with people and stuff like that, and they obviously couldn't fly us out to Italy to shoot it or anything. So they gave us full control. That was really great. It was like working with a huge brand like Converse and Rick, so we definitely finally got the resources to make some moves for ourselves. In that moment, we were like, OK, for sure we need to move to either London or New York or Paris, one of the big cities, so we can pursue fashion and work and just have like a a home base where there's opportunities versus just staying in Montreal. When we were thinking about where to move... London, we were because a lot of our best friends were there, but at the same time, I feel like in terms of creativity and expression, London is so good at that. It's already there. The impact that we would have on the London community would just be repeating what is already said. New York was somewhere that you have trauma going because when we started, we lived in New York. We were like very poor in New York. It was like a really, really intense hardship type of life for us in New York. So I think you for sure didn't want to revisit that. And then it was Paris, which we always want to live in Paris. We always wanted to present in Paris. As designers, we always wanted to be around that, but there was a fear of like, OK, but it's super conservative because you can be there, and you could present as a part time situation, but to fully be imbedded within the Parisian machine, not a lot of people do it, so we were like, OK, let's take the risk, and we did it, and it's been really good initially. I think the first week or so we realised how much more intense it is for people like us and our expression, because I think when you think of Paris, you think of Fashion Week, but it was not during Fashion Week when we moved, and it was a whole different life, and we definitely got a lot of scary reactions and a lot of aggressive reactions that was violent and scary. So we were like, OK, this is not what we expected, but then when we got to hang out with a lot of the the people from the community and stuff, they were so grateful that we decided to move there because they were like, "oh, finally there's a beacon of light of people who are fully being themselves." It kind of helped them or motivated them to be themselves also a little bit more. There's definitely something happening in Paris for us, but also for Paris itself, I think there's a movement of change happening. So we're excited to see where that goes and where it takes us. For us right now, we're really just being kind of grateful to be able to perfect our skill, whether it's through makeup or photography or whatever.
The level of skill and perfectionism is really high there. So it's actually helped us grow a lot.
H: That's what my favourite part about Paris is the refinement and making sure everything is really proper and perfect.
S: But we got bored really quick like we really got... What was that Coco Chanel saying? Yeah.
H: Yeah, "when putting on accessories, take off the last thing you've put on." So never like junk it on.
S: Don't be over the top or whatever. So we were like, OK, cool. We stripped it back, and we were having fun. We had a really good time, but then like we got so bored, and then we started piling shit on again, and now we're in Tokyo, which is like I feel like a big part of the fashion... at least from what we thought it would be was kind of the whole Harajuku like pilot all on. Since we've come here, it's been like actually very bad. It's been both extremes. Either people are piling it all on or it's super minimal and it's very, very refined and very kind of poetic, which has been really nice also.
I think you would have enjoyed Tokyo probably 15, 20 years ago.
H: Yeah, that was our perception of it.
When I first came to Tokyo over two decades ago before I moved here, I wish I took photography more seriously back then because it was so much more interesting, so many crazy people around Harajuku. That's faded away. I think social media might have a part to play. There is a lot less individuality, everyone just dresses the same.
S: I think that social media has given people from all walks of life an opportunity and access to what is trendy. So everybody kind of applies it. So it's actually social media is like an identity for a lot of people. Even for us, we went back to Montreal recently, and this was a place that we thought was super basic and very boring, not a lot of fashion going on. Now that we went, it was like as if we were in New York or London or Paris because I think everybody's on the same wave.
Less people wanna stand I feel. People will try less to have their own aesthetic. It's kind of scary being disappointing basically.
H: They all just look like one homogeneous society, which is not as fun. We'll always be the crazy ones.
I wanted to ask you about your relationship with Rick Owens, and how that came about and what is it like?
H: Rick, to me, he's somebody who has opened doors for people like us. We cannot exist and come out without somebody like Rick Owens, who has kind of paved the way for different types of beauty, different types of fashion. So first and foremost, we would always recognise him as somebody who really paved the way and then eventually, I mean we knew about Rick obviously at fashion school. You were a big fan. My first Christmas gift to you was a Rick Owens, like a nun hat. Yeah, you were obsessed. It is kind of weird that now we're friends, I guess.
S: I don't remember where we were. I think we were in London, and then we just presented our skin boots, which was like our kind of big moment for us, and then we got an e-mail from Rick directly and was like randomly. He just said, "if you're ever in Paris, let's have dinner." We were actually coming to Paris for Halloween, and it's like, oh, let's have dinner on Halloween night. Then we went to his place, and it was really fun, and he really wanted us to show him everything we've ever done. So we were kind of showing everything, and it was really nice, and then we had an amazing dinner at his place, and we met Michèle. It was really beautiful to just see how someone can create their kind of vision but translated on every single element down to even the forks and knives. So it was like, you know, beyond just a designer, he was designing his world, and that was so inspiring to us because that's how we see the world, but there's not a lot of examples in the world that we live in -- people that can really just go all the way. So that was really great. Then, we just were in talks of working together, and then we did the soundtrack for one of his shows, and that was really cool. That was really exciting. We were going to do another project, and that kind of fell through. We were just in contact with friends and just keeping a cute little relationship. It was when the Converse project got approached, which was really fun because basically he wanted us to kind of just work on a filter for the Converse release, so it would be like a social media filter. He said he wanted it to be something related to this one pose that Hannah was doing and something with the pentagram because the pentagram was like a big part of the shoe. It was like 6 in the morning when I saw the message because it was also like Paris time. I was like, oh, let's use our bodies and turn it into pentagrams. I quickly drew it, and then I sent it to him. Then he was like, genius! Let's do this. He didn't really come back to us, so we were like, oh, I guess it fell through.
H: I think it was like four or five months before we heard about that after him saying he loved that.
S: Then he was like, I want you guys to now shoot the campaign and do the whole thing, and then we're like, OK. That project was really fun for us because it was like full freedom to do what we wanted. When the shoe came out, though it had a lot of great positive reaction, but had a lot of negative reaction also because the pentagram. People were calling it satanic because it's also Converse, which touches like such a wide audience. It's just all the Rick fans because it was like the controversial shoe. So which makes you want it even more. When we moved to Paris, it was the first time we got to see a Rick show, which was really nice because we were working with him for so long, but we never really got to see the shows and see the world, and that was really great. We got to hang out with Michèle a lot because he kind of works a lot in Italy, so she was mostly based in Paris, so we got to kind of hang out and they invited us for Christmas, and it's been a really amazing experience because it's not just like a working relationship but also like a friendship. Sometimes you meet your idols, and you meet the people that you love and care about so much, and they disappoint. Rick is definitely like who we thought he would be. He's a really generous, loving, caring person, but he's also a cunt (laughs). I love that about him because that's who he is. He's really hard on everything, so I really appreciate that, and then asking us to do the Tokyo gig, which we found out like a while ago and that was really fun to prepare. We were working on music, and we previewed our first two songs from our upcoming music project, and we asked him if we can, and he was like, "yeah, sure, but is it going to be like kind of a downer?" I think he expected it to be like a really nuanced experimental like situation and obviously this is like a rave. This is like a huge crazy party. He was a little bit nervous about what we would do.
H: He made me nervous. I couldn't sleep. I didn't sleep the whole night. I felt his energy like he was really, really underestimating us.
S: He even admitted it. When we did the rave, people almost went past the gate and like started rushing the stage because they were obsessed with whatever we were playing. So the reaction was everything he wanted, and it was good.The day after the next day, we just spent the day sightseeing with him and Michèle. It was really nice to see Tokyo with them. So that was really cute. I don't know what's next with the Rick World, but for us specifically as people, it's kind of one of the only luxury brands that kind of: A) represents this type of beauty and point of view, but also B) that respects people like us. So it's like sometimes we'll go to bigger brands and stuff like that, the stores and the places, and it's like they look at us, and they judge where a place like Rick Owens is like they look at us as potential clients, and people that could actually engage with the brand. So there's definitely... on a beautiful creative lens, I think what they've created is amazing, but on a business level, they've also really given people like us a space to be able to consume because to be honest, that's why we're very picky on what we put on our bodies because not all the brands actually care about the values of people like us. That's something that obviously the Rick brand does because Rick is someone like us, so that's where the connection is.
H: Rick comes from the same background as us -- pattern-making, technical-sewing, and all these things. I see how much work goes into, whereas you go to other brands, and you don't have this quality. You don't have this amazing seam work. I was analysing the skirt, how he made it, and I was like, whoa, there's so much thought process going into these garments, whereas other brands, it's like they don't give a fuck.
Design for the sake of design.
H: Yeah, so I also appreciate it on that level too.
From here, what's the vision for Fecal Matter?
H: So we're gonna be releasing our music, our album, so that should be coming out soon, which is really exciting. So again, kind of doing another arm of Fecal Matter. It's not just fashion and makeup. It can also be music not even just DJ, like our own vocals, our own music. This is really exciting for us.
S: We have the costume project with Jean Paul Gaultier, which was really exciting to be able to kind of create some of the most creative designs we've ever done, so that was really special and kind of I think simultaneously with the music, we've also been so passionate with design again. So get ready for some collections and some designs coming. I think for us, I mean the main thing is that we want to just continue to just present authenticity within everything we do, so we're not rushing to grow. We're just focusing on how do we maintain what we stand for and the values that we have because I think for us specifically, we know that without those values, not only will we be lost, but I think that people will be lost in terms of how they consume what we do because I think that it's obvious because when you're so raw and you're so vulnerable in what you do, I think it's clear when you're not. So for us, that's a big part of what we do and have some fun. I feel like we've been working so hard these past couple of months. It's been like a really hard working journey. So hopefully, next week, we're gonna go to Kyoto and maybe just chill...
H: ...but probably work (laughs).
Photography : James Oliver
Art Direction & Styling : Naruki Yamanouchi
All Clothing : Rick Owens